A Requiem For Brian Slapp

Closed shops

A question for Lismore Unlimited. Just how genuine are your members?

Last Saturday, January 27, I went into Lismore CBD to A wet & wild time shopping

I've just returned from town a little damper in spirit. The rain was pouring and some Lismore shop awnings didn't help keep me dry - a basic function for an awning I would have thought.

So here's an idea.

Before the next CBD beautification project, how about we get back to some basics and the Council fines any CBD property owner that has an awning that leaks water on the footpath. There must be a public safety by-law that can be brought into play.

It would take half an hour with a camera and notebook on a rainy day, and Council would have a list of properties that make the Lismore CBD in the rain a horrible and slippery shopping experience.

And while I'm at it, could we also have a planning rule that ensures all new building refurbishments in the CBD (on both sides of the block) include an awning - and one that extends to the edge of the footpath?

If the CBD wants to keep its customers, some basic comforts built for our subtropical climate would be much appreciated.

Rob Garbutt

Centrelink woes

The perils of dealing with Centrelink (and its previous incarnations) have been long documented. My story is just another one to add to the pile.

On Monday, January 29, I had the misfortune of having to visit the Lismore Centrelink office.

Upon arriving I discovered that the line extended halfway down the outdoor steps (no doubt in part because Centrelink bungled last Friday's payments).

I went to check if the completed forms box was there, only to discover that the completed forms box had disappeared. I joined the back of the queue.

As a disability pensioner who has trouble standing up at the best of times, this was extremely difficult to say the least. Ten minutes passed before a Centrelink employee had the initiative to get off their behind and ask if there was anyone with completed forms (I was still at the doorway I might add). When she finally did get to me and smiled as if to say "aren't you having the best day of your life?"

I said no and began to complain that as an disabled woman I had quite a lot of difficulty in standing up for long periods, to which she replied "there are chairs inside for you to sit on".

Sorry, I missed those. There are 'provisions for the disabled inside' signs, I did see the 'phone for an appointment' signs, but I must have been temporarily blinded by all the people waiting.

When I complained about the completed forms box no longer accepting all completed forms I was told that "we often get forms in the box from people who need to see someone ".

Oh gee, sorry I'm not a moron! Why should I, and others like me, be penalised for the ones that obviously don't know how to fill in a form correctly?

Thanks Centrelink. Thanks for making a crappy day even crappier.

Natalie Elliott

Lismore Heights

Pool reality

Replacing the pool at the Memorial Baths site has been, and continues to be, a divisive issue for successive Councils over many years. The realities are that the existing Baths are way past their use-by date, they are losing $100,000 every year of ratepayers money and they have to be replaced. The three main issues are really about where, by what and at what cost? These might seem to be questions that have commonsense answers, however the reality is far more complex, and highlights the flaws in our representative and adversarial systems of government.

There seem to be three divergent views in Council on these questions. One group seems to see the retention of the swimming facilities in the CBD as a way of supporting the CBD and the future economic development of the City. Another group of Councillors believes that providing internal, year round facilities located with non-aquatic facilities such as a gymnasium, is the only financially viable option in the longterm, and that a shared cost joint venture project with another organisation (e.g. the university) is the way forward. Another group of Councillors believes that the only location for replacement facilities should be in Goonellabah, the major growth area of Lismore, and that the Memorial Baths should be retained as well. Each of these options have different financial and community implications.

What does all this mean? It means that those supporting any of these options have at most six of the twelve Council votes. The Council is very split on this issue.

We live in a world of personal and oppositional politics in which it is often difficult to open our hearts and minds to listen to people, apart from those who support our own views. Trying to represent our communities seems to require of us that we understand that our own opinions, even when based on factual information and valid grounds from the perspective of parts of our communities, are not necessarily right or representative of more than parts of our diverse communities. We can all be wrong! The danger for us as Councillors is that we think the people we know, whose views are closest to our own, who reflect our values, are the majority. I suspect most people in our community think that its not worth telling us what they really think. Those who put pen to paper are important voices however rarely do they have enough information to make an informed comment.

How might we move forward on a contentious and divisive issue such as the Baths? It's an issue about which residents have strong views because the Baths have recreational and financial significance. We need to involve more residents in discussions and we need to ensure that they have access to full information. Currently we have a decision made by a majority of councillors that has left half the councillors disaffected. If this reflects the general population then Council will inherit a general legacy of ill-will. This is surely an issue that requires community consensus, not just the votes of six out of twelve councillors.

On another difficult issue - the flood levee - the previous Council sought independent community input through an informed survey. Surely a different way forward would be to start again on this issue and involve the community in a deliberative poll, such as that which occurred over the Republic and the one that is soon to take place on Reconciliation. This would give a significant number of residents the chance to be informed of all the issues and opinions and then to be surveyed about their preferred option. If councillors agreed to accept the recommendations from this deliberative poll, all councillors would feel confident that a large cross-section of residents had been heard and that these residents came to their view by having access to adequate information. All residents might then have their faith in political decision makers somewhat restored, knowing that they were being well represented by being genuinely heard.

Cr Ros Irwin

Lismore

rirwin@scu.edu.au

God exists ?

Suzanne Milasouski, the biographies of four credible men, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John...

In a process maturing late in the second century, four different accounts of Jesus's life and teaching and passion were selected for the New Testament canon from the gospels then circulating.

Apparently used in four different communities, they varied significantly among themselves and in different versions of each text. The four eventually were declared to have been divinely inspired.

Other gospels - that of Thomas among them - were labeled apocryphal and banned. As early as the third century Origen had commented that the difference among the manuscripts of the four canonical gospels "has become great, either through the negligence of some copyists or through the perverse audacity of others." (Origen noted that "the Gospel according to Thomas and the Gospel according to Matthias and many others" were in circulation.) The simple truth is that the originals of the Greek texts of the gospels that were later gathered together in the New Testament are not known. Through the centuries, especially in the early period, they were altered in many ways. Words, sentences, sometimes whole passages, have been added, deleted, or changed through scribal errors in copying or by editors and re-writers seeking to "clarify" the meaning to conform to their own views. And, apart from a few scattered phrases, the original words of Jesus, who spoke Aramaic, are nowhere preserved in the New Testament; it was written in Greek. '.........(1997 Herbert Christian Merillat)

Are these the same 'credible men's testimonies you base your believes on??

Goddess Lyn

Lismore

Nuclear debate

Lismore has an anti-nuclear sign up or down on the outskirts of our city according to the majority view of the Council. In May last year, after the election of a slightly new council, a motion was passed to remove the anti-nuclear sign.

Meanwhile at the Local Government Association Conference held in Gosford in November 2000 a motion was passed criticising the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation for signing a contract with Argentinian company INVAP to design and construct a new $280 million reactor at Lucas Heights in Sydney.

The new reactor would be used for the creation of isotopes for medical research.

The Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Agency is concerned with the disposal of nuclear waste. Nuclear Physicist Frank Barbaby and others have pointed to the availability of isotopes on the open market.

I think there needs to be more informative public debate on this topic. What does it mean for us if there is a sign on a post saying this is a nuclear free zone outside our town? Would it be so bad if we needed to depend on importing isotopes required for medical research?

While the residents in close proximity to the Lucas Heights reactor and organisations like Green Peace are gravely concerned about a new reactor should we be as well?

Local Federal members of Parliament should be able to help people wanting to become more informed on this topic. Will we be ahead or behind in what is best for all of us and future generations of Australians if plans for the new nuclear reactor go ahead at Lucas Heights?

Who cares?

Kathryn Pollard

Lismore

Religious experience

There has been a large amount of interesting discussion concerning religion in these pages of late.

Would someone please explain the purpose of religion per se and why are so many people around the world fighting to the death (see Israel) in order to defend their particular god/religion? I believe that in the past, before man had a good scientific knowledge of the world and the universe, religion was used as a means to explain the origins of the earth, stars and life itself. Many ideas were filtered and passed down through the ages, for example many elements of the ancient Egyptian religious fables can be found in today’s Bible.

We still cannot fully explain the origins of life and the universe today which does leave a certain opening to the fundamentalists, but we certainly can dismiss, based on scientific evidence, many of the ideas presented to us by the Bible (which is not written by God), but by the hand of man pretending to have a link with God.

One only has to read the books of scholars such as Barbara Thiering to realise how irrelevant and jumbled these old religious ideas are.

Perhaps Jesus was just a very smart salesman/entertainer...that is how he made his living. one only has to travel to the Phillipines or the USA to see amazing miracles on stage (donations can be made with Visa, Mastercard etc)...

What were the purposes of religion? I believe that there were several. Originally religion was a means for man who had little control of his environment to plead to the powers that be for favourable conditions for their crops, or good hunting.

Religion was an easy means to control of the masses based on fear, plus reverence and great wealth created from the subjugation of lowly subjects based on an irrational fear of everlasting damnation in the fires of the underworld. Religion also gave these rulers a certain panache and good old ego rub as living Gods.

The big ticket for today's followers is that of the biggest ticket of all...everlasting life. If it wasn't for this promise which helps to allay a natural and entirely justifiable fear of death, would anybody bother going to church?

Unfortunately many people get a bit drunk with it all and become fanatical zealots, prepared to blow themselves up if necessary for the cause. I wonder if there has been any scientific studies on the effects of religious propaganda on the masses. What kind of psychological malfunctioning occurs as the true believers chant their messages to the heathen?

If there is a God I pray that his/her followers will not have a need to waste their short time here on earth wondering what is on the other side or attending weird ceremonies... for all we know he/she might have put us here simply to live, to love life, appreciate the earth and the universe whilst we are present, and be kind to each other.

My religious kind of experience today is staring in wonder at a wonderful sunset, mountain or tree, a whale, discovering a new insect I have never seen before...appreciating the wonders of the universe and all the new discoveries that are being made, eg fractal geometry. It is in the small kindnesses of strangers, or the look in my dogs eyes that say "I think your'e the best thing ever".

For me at least the jumbled musings written by the uneducated men of times past and blended through the ages by religious hypocrites with ulterior motives has definitely passed.

Adey May

Sydney

* Edited for length

The word of?

Suzanne Milasouski (Echo, Jan 25) makes several assumptions which are not based on what I actually said in my letter (Echo, Jan 18).

It is syllogistic to suggest that my interest in subjects such as reincarnation, out of body experiences etc. or my opinion that those who do not accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour, are not self righteous, imply that I am "closed minded" about Jesus and the Bible. (Which I have read, by the way).

To imply that my attempt to elicit open-minded discussion on these issues is an attempt to negate "the validity and overwhelming evidence of the Bible" is quite absurd. Moreover, the assumption that my predilection towards non-Christian ideas springs from negative experiences with the church is akin to saying that I must prefer daffodils to roses, because I once pricked my finger on a thorn.

As for the lofty assertion that experience can nullify truth despite how real experiences are, this suggests that even if what we experience goes against Christian beliefs, those Christian beliefs are still The Truth.

But what if aliens in a giant cigar shaped spaceship land on the Earth next week and "prove" to us that they used holograms and mind control 2000 years ago to control humans via religion, and they show videos to prove it?

What would you say about experience not nullifying "the truth" and what would this imply about who 'God' actually might be?

The above may seem outrageous but let's face it, "the truth" is that which appeals to us either emotionally, spiritually or intellectually and is based at least partially on our own conditioning and experience. The idea that whatever we experience can never nullify the "truth" that Christians believe is The Truth just doesn't cut it, I'm afraid.

For those of us who believe in some kind of God, then how about the idea that some of the great prophets throughout history were actually incarnations of God and that those incarnations came to earth to teach humans what they needed to know at that stage of their respectie spiritual, intellectual, evolutionary level?

I appreciate that those who are religious are offended at the very suggestion that God does not exist and I would like to stress that I have said nothing one way or the other to that effect. Nor have I questioned the existence of any great prophet, including Jesus.

My purpose in writing is to invoke meaningful dialogue on the letters page on a variety of subjects and there is no good reason to allow the scales to tip too far on the side of the eschatological or the ecclesiastic.

Jenni Oliver

Lismore